Guest: Jonathan Liebert
Topic: AI, trust, small business, and leadership
Note: Lightly reformatted for readability from the raw timed transcript. Speaker labels were not included in the source, so the conversation is grouped by topic and timestamp.
OPENING AND GUEST INTRODUCTION
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[0:02] Show me yours. Where failure speaks volumes. Jason and getting real drop. Brutal business truths. No sugar coated. Only raw lessons shared. Tuning out on your mistakes. Show me yours. Hello and welcome to this episode of Show Me Yours. I am Rihanna Werner, your co-host, and I've got Jason. Hey everybody. Welcome, welcome, welcome. As usual, I feel like I say this a lot. We have a treat for you. Almost every episode, it's always a treat. Maybe I should find another line. I'll figure that out. But you actually have a bigger treat this week. So, sitting next to me is a dear friend, a mentor, a guide, an inspiration to me and I think most small business owners and leaders within our community.
[0:53] And um I'm proud to introduce my friend and colleague in many ways boards, community activities, like we do a lot of [expletive] together. We do. Um Jonathan Libert, primarily known as the CEO of the Better Business Bureau, the Southern Colorado Better Business Bureau. Yep. In addition to that, okay, there's a whole list of additional titles. I mean, you've got Oh gosh. No, just tell us everything you do. I'm not even going to attempt. I'm going to make a fool out of myself. No, no, it's it's Thank you for having me. Um, no, no pressure. It's like setting the bar high here. I got to deliver now. I'll do my best. You will.
[1:35] No, thanks for having me. But yeah, CEO of Better Business Bureau of Southern Colorado. Um, there's a nonprofit attached to that called the Southern Colorado Impact Group. They do the Prism Awards. A lot of people are familiar with that in town. We do a lot of work around social impact and social impact training strategies. Um I'm an adjunct professor at UCCS. So I get to teach in the business school over there. I actually teach social enterprise. Yes. And um I'm doing a lot of AI classes now. Um founded a group just recently called the AI collective that's helping to put on this AI summit called Blaze.
[2:05] So that's coming up too. Want to make sure I know we'll talk about AI in here today. So we'll get to that. And then um I'm on the workforce uh local workforce board with you which is awesome. And then I'm the board chair for the statewide level. So yeah, workforce, social impact, AI, other things. Yeah, but those are those are the fun things I'm I'm doing right now, which is awesome. You know, just no big deal. It keeps me out of trouble. Yeah, I'm sure it does. That's the tr staying busy. Staying busy. Keep I'm just saying I think we're similar creatures. We get bored easy. Yes. So true. And boredom is dangerous. Very, very dangerous. That's where trouble happens.
[2:42] Yeah. Yeah. So, so Jonathan, um, how in the world? Okay, so we've got social impact, AI, workforce, like how do all of these interconnect? What do they have to do with each Great question. I mean, it's really interesting because I think it comes back to the work that I'm doing at BBB, right? It's about one, it's about like a larger ecosystem, but it's also to me it's about it's about trust. Like trust is more important than ever now. And it doesn't matter if it's like trust with an individual, trust with um a community, trust in your business. That's what a lot of this stuff does. And I think as a as communities are trying to figure out this new age we're entering. And let's be honest, there's an end of an age. We're start another one. And people are trying to get their bearings right now. If you're not a trusted human, if you're not a trusted business, if you're not a trusted entity in this world and economy, like you're done. people have their BS detectors on high and they're looking for reasons to disregard you, not work with you, fire you. I mean, whatever. So, again, it's it's in that sense I think a lot of those things, but also honestly, it's like let's do good in the world. Let's use our tools, our expertise, our businesses to bring, you know, people good things. Like, use your powers for good. I tell my children all the time, but I think that goes for anybody. Like, use your skill sets for good. Like, do cool things, do good things, but, you know, make it better than you found it.
[4:05] Give me a little bit of the runway up to all of this. Like this is you've been doing this, but what how did you find yourself in all of these worlds? Give us just a little bit of prehistory to uh to the Godfather, I guess it might be. Yes. Yes. Brandon, right? So, another interesting question. So, in another world, I was a therapist. So, that's my background. I have a master's degree in in psychology. And so I worked for it's now called Diversus, but it was called AspenPointe. So I was there for about 15 years. And that was my deal like I'm gonna go help people and do therapy. And so I did that and then got into more like the leadership side really quickly, but then more specifically I learned very quickly. I was surprised, my parents were surprised. It's like, you know what, cuz they're teachers and psychologists and social workers and then and I was doing that, too. And then it's like, oh, I like this business stuff.
[4:57] Yeah. And so over there at um AspenPointe, I learned about this thing, new thing called social enterprise and social entrepreneurship. And it was just really cool thing because for us it was about how do I get somebody a job that has a major mental health issue or an at-risk youth or somebody with, you know, u a kind of negative background. And so that was my job is to find these people work. And what I found is that it's easier to go start your own business, hire the people that you want, then go kind of beg other people to hire them for you. Yeah. And so that's when I learned, oh, I like this business thing, but it's a hybrid. It's it's a social impact business, which is I love the purpose and profit, the mission and margin. I love both.
[5:38] So that kind of got me on this track of working inside businesses. And then yeah, surprised my parents and family of like you're what are you doing now? That's a big turn. Yeah, that's a little bit. So that led me to BBB because that was that was a job I had after Aspen Point. So 10 year anniversary as of last month. Oh wow. Congratulations. Congratulations. I didn't know that. Yeah. I forgot about it till Speaking of which, I thought I knew you pretty well, but I was listening to the podcast that you were on with Dirk Hobbs, the Southern Colorado business digest and forum or something. Yeah.
JONATHAN’S BOOK, AI, AND FLOW STATE
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[6:12] They just changed the name on me and now I'm like, ah. Anyway, so you were on his podcast and he mentioned something that I didn't know. You're about to become a published author. Yes. Yeah. Tell us about your book. I'm very excited about this. So, this goes back to the AI conversation. So, um again, and in the psychology one. So, AI user using it every day. I know you're using it every day, too. And you've probably seen some of this as well. So, from the cognitive standpoint, because that's how I kind of look at just how my brain works as I look at people and look at processes. It's just like this cognitive thing. And so I was using AI every day and it was probably about seven or eight months in and I had this aha moment of, you know, if you're familiar with this, it's a psychological concept of this concept of being in a flow state. Yeah.
[6:55] That's when you're hyperfocused, you're very productive and you're happy. And so I was in this flow state one day and as a psychologist teaching this and talking about it like it's it's not easy to get there or stay there. I mean sports psychologists can make a lot of money teaching athletes how to enter these states. So, I was using ChatGPT one day and I realized it's like, holy crap, I'm in a I'm in a flow state right now. How the heck that, you know, and then that got me thinking. I was like, well, wait a second. These are hard to get into. Now, I'm able to kind of do enter a flow state whenever I want because an AI helped train me to do that. I'm like, well, what else did am I thinking different? And so, I started to notice some patterns around critical thinking skills. So, this is what the book is about. Chapter one is about if you're using AI the right way, your critical thinking skills increase. A lot of people will say, "Oh, it's going to make you lazy." And it can if you use it a different way and if you use it the right way. I saw all these benefits. So, you know, critical thinking skills, the ability to discern lots of information and data, the ability to think kind of like an like an AI because as you're watching ChatGPT or Manis or Gemini kind of work and write things, your brain's learning from it and it's starting to code like it in a sense of breaking down things and looking for patterns.
[8:03] Everybody's and other people start. So, I asked some friends who are using it every day. like are you noticing like these three things? Like I'm noticing that and I'm noticing this and that. Have you noticed that too? And I'm like, oh my god, I hadn't thought about that. So the whole book is really about how we're thinking with AI, how to use it as a thought accelerator and not just a tool. Most people, oh, it's just another tool. It is, but if you're using it just for that, like you're missing out. You should use it as a thought partner, which will then get into the thought accelerator. And so the whole book talks about how to kind of think with AI, things I've noticed and things other people have noticed. And I'm starting to see a couple of things pop up in research where they're starting to research these things. It'll be interesting to see if I'm right or maybe I'm not. But either way, it's I had a blast writing it. So much fun. And it's being edited right now. Um the hope is that it'll be published here uh in the fall and then I started writing my second one already. So AI is helping me figure all out this stuff and lay it out for me and then I'm just, you know, having fun writing it.
[8:59] So I got to ask, are you using the term like vibe thinking? Absolutely. Because that I mean that's right. We got Vibe marketing, Vibe coding, and then this idea of like Vibe thinking and applying these same principles. I love it. That's super cool. Definitely. It's awesome. It's fun. Can I call dibs on a signed first edition? Heck yeah. Nice. Definitely. All right, Jason, what do you say?
BUCKET QUESTION: TOUGH NEWS, EMPATHY, AND COVID-ERA SUPPORT
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[9:22] Yeah, I love it. Let's dive in. We got We uh as you guys know, if you've been following along, we have introduced our third co-host, The Bucket, which is a finely curated series of questions uh for our guests. But today I changed up the bucket uh for Jonathan to drive us a little bit more down this AI conversation. Um obviously we love talking about failures and mistakes and so we're bringing that theme in a little bit as well, but also looking at it from the angle of AI as well as business owners and what you see trendwise. So we're going to let the bucket take over the show and see where this thing goes from here. So how concerned should I be about the third co-host here?
[10:01] I don't know. It can be a little We'll find out. That's part of the fun, right? Exactly. So, you might as well get in there. Let's dig in here. You know, while you're pulling your number, see what happens. Oh, there we go. All right. You got it. All right. All right. Okay. So, this is a long one. Tell us about a time you had to deliver incredibly tough news to a small business you were supporting. How did you handle it? And what did you learn about empathy in leadership? You know, this is a good question. And I feel like not that we're kind of directly delivering tough news specifically, but it kind of seems to be like in general.
[10:35] Um, this one definitely kind of takes me back to specifically like, you know, the COVID years when there's just all these things going on, people had a lot of questions and it was it's been tough lately because from an economic standpoint, the economy hasn't been that great. So when I was getting questions in COVID and now I'm starting to get them again, which is like, oh man, you know, hey, what do you see? what's happening, what can I do, is there any money I can apply for, anything I can go for, do I qualify for this? And then just kind of telling people, no, everybody's dealing with this stuff right now. You got to think about this in a different way. And I think during during COVID, we really wanted to make sure we were being uh empathetic to folks. And so we were very cognitive about that because my staff were almost getting some secondary trauma from just hearing these stories come in during COVID where Jonathan, I just got off the phone. This business owner was crying like they had to cancel their accreditation and then they don't know how they're going to pay their electrical bill and then if they can't pay that bill, it's going to turn the power off and then they're going to out of business or they can't make payroll like and so they're freaked out about that. I mean, so all these issues that we heard during COVID just popped up. And so we had to really make sure as a team, as a staff, one that we were handling it well, but the second piece is that as an employer needed to make, hey, how are you doing?
[11:54] Let me check in with my staff and just kind of let's talk through this and what help do you need for you? Because some people were fine, some people were not depending on the story. And so I need to make sure that they were okay as in addition to like, hey, what other skills can we kind of help you? At the end of the day, the policy we really had was, you know, we got to be straight with people. One, we're the Better Business Bureau. We're objective. We gota we're going to be truthful all the time, but also we're just going to be kind of brutally honest sometimes, like here's the answer. Or here's the other thing.
[12:25] Unlike AI, sometimes don't make it up. If you don't know, then say I don't know. Exactly. They get back to you. or in this town it's great because for a lot of things to we were able to say that's not what we do but I know who else can help you. So, we also made it a point during COVID to really make sure we knew what the resources were. Not my job normally, but I told my staff like, I don't care like it's our job today. So, what are all of our other friends doing? And if we can't answer the question, figure it out and then point them in the right direction. And so, we did a lot of like resource navigation during that time, too, because of some of those issues and struggles people were having.
[13:04] Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It's interesting you brought up the secondary trauma. my team carried that. I mean, it was so incredibly heavy during that period of time. And I never really thought about it in terms of secondary trauma that my team carried during that time. But we definitely talked about the heaviness and us carrying the heaviness of our clients. And we felt like we during that period of time, we were carrying our own heaviness, but we were also carrying on our backs the exact the hardship of everybody else. And you're the messenger during that time. you have zero control. You're just sharing information and helping as much as you can. But oftentimes the little help you could give didn't do enough.
[13:49] It's not much and they're kind of coming to you in this moment of need and you know we were talking about this earlier that sometimes you know businesses don't like asking for help and now they're asking for help and in some cases you're kind of like the last resort and it's sorry that's when it yeah that's when it was rough. It was rough. There's there's nothing like you're asking for. It doesn't exist. Yeah. I think people in our positions during co we look back at that time and think gosh that's the hardest we ever worked. Right. Right. And then you know you know of a lot of people who have you know a traditional job and stuff who didn't work a whole lot during co but boy I think uh that was the hardest I worked the heaviest I ever felt and uh it's tough being the messenger.
[14:34] Yeah. It was just Yeah. Just weird. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. All right. Well, let's go back to the bucket. That was like a deep one right off the bat. There is AI questions in there. I do promise. Yeah. Did throw a couple other ones in there, but I'll I'll choose wisely. Yes. Like you have any say on, right? Exactly. Let's see if we can find an AI one. Okay. Let's see.
FOUNDATIONAL ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT AI
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[14:54] Uh, when did you realize a foundational assumption you had about AI was completely wrong and what was the consequence? Like every day. I was going to say like this stuff changes like so much. Um, you know, I'll say here's something that's interesting that I'll that I'll mention kind of going back to the therapy thing. Um, I saw this research the other day from Harvard and I said one of the number one things people are using this for, like the top three things are all like, oh no. Number one is there people are using AI as a as a mental health therapist. Yeah. And I never use it as a therapist because that's just not how my thinking went. But, you know, I always used it like as a business coach.
[15:35] That's worked great. Gives you good advice, right? Yeah. But, um, what I've seen is that people are using it for mental health and for therapy. And that's not recommended. There's actually other tools. I've beta tested a couple of tools locally here in town of, hey, Jonathan, would you check this AI therapist out? It's in addition to, you know, a human therapist, you know, and in a system of care and used right and well 247. Like, that's great. But I think it's it's that assumption that people have that one I can use as a therapist. No. And then number two is just kind of figuring out, you know, like your life and organizing it like, okay, that's not bad. But number three is the other one where it's really kind of weird. Um people are asking it questions about like their higher purpose. And on its face, it sounds okay, that's okay, fine.
[16:22] But second, it's like how would you how would you know? Yeah. So this is well documented and it's I think it's gotten better. I haven't heard anything for a couple months now. But for a while there, people were asking it these questions about themselves and what they should be doing. And AI was telling them what they wanted to hear and kind of hyping them up. And basically what it was telling them is like, you're the chosen one and you can do anything and yeah, heck yeah, go for it, you know, go quit that job or whatever. And just giving them like this really weird advice, but essentially on a spiritual or religious level, telling them they're the one.
[16:54] And I had a lot of conversations with people about that fundamental thing for a while there. like, "Wow, no, be careful, you know, be aware that this thing it's it's it's super smart, but it's also algorithms at this point. It's looking for patterns. It's going to tell you what you want to hear. And so, it's going to concoct this nice mythological story about you and connect symbolism to every because it knows you well. Yeah. And it's going to tell you things that sound real. I had somebody that it that told me like Jonathan I had a um somebody a family member die and it was you know kind of helped me get through the grieving process and then it was oh by the way do you want to talk to this person because I can talk to the other side and get out and so they're like well maybe and it didn't and it messed them up you know so yeah you got to be careful with these tools don't ask to be a therapist and if it tells you're the chosen one um stop so what do you find as like a balance of it does know us really well.
[17:51] So because it can see our own patterns or how we're interacting with it even on the subconscious, right? The patterns that we have. Oh yeah. So if it knows us well, what is the line of it being able to reflect in a positive way versus reflecting that we're the chosen one. So you use a key word there and I love it and that's reflect. I think this is what and talk about in my in my book too. You got to think of AI is as a it's a digital mirror and it reflects you. So it does know a lot of these things and we like to think that you know as human beings like we're all unique and special and to some point that is true as a psychologist I'm telling you like you study behavior there are patterns we are very predictable.
[18:31] Yes we are and we're it's just hard to see because it's hard to be objective about ourselves and it's hard to be objective about ourselves as a species. Well guess what AI is not our it's not it's it's a new species really. Yeah. So it can be objective about you and it's not quite there yet, but it is going to see patterns. It is going to see stuff. And so if you think about it as a reflection of you, a digital reflection, it's going to be a lot of cases like a souped-up version in a lot of ways a better version, a smarter version, still you. But I tell everybody this, it's like whatever's inside of you, good or bad, it's an amplifier as well. So it's going to reflect the stuff back to you. It's going to amplify your goodness.
[19:10] It's going to amplify evil. It's gonna amplify laziness, complacency, I mean, all those things. And so, whatever it is, whatever how whatever you're using it for, it's gonna like dial that thing up by a couple notches and still be fairly accurate about how you work, how you think, because there are patterns of this stuff and it it is going to know you really well, which is which is really good. And it can also be dangerous and used against you. Yeah. So, be careful. Right. Isn't it interesting that we're talking about such a techbased tool? I mean, this is the most techy of all tech that we've ever experienced in our whole entire life. I mean, in history. Um, but here we are in the core foundational aspect of it all, it all just still boils down to humanness. We're talking in every aspect. You know, we're I mean this question is the foundational assumptions, those foundational assumptions go back to just simply being human.
[20:10] We're using tech to validate our human humanness and who we are. And it sounds like there's there's healthy use of it. Yeah. And then there's very unhealthy use of it. I heard in the news, it was probably a couple months ago, there was a lady who turned her AI into her boyfriend. she was dating her AI. I don't know how that worked, but you know, I'm sure she didn't get roses in the mail. Well, it's it's interesting anytime we see these moves, like I remember going through like the shift into like web 2.0 and you know, this is 2007, 2008, virtual spaces were starting to open up, right? You could begin interacting with the internet. And so, you had things like Second Life popping up, right?
[20:52] Where you could go into virtual worlds and interact with people all over the world. And the first stories that were coming out were people getting married and people you know all this stuff and it's like we're right on the edge. We just this is a cycle I've seen repeating is like just as this new tech comes out and then the big stories are people are getting in love falling in love with it or getting married with it and you know what we have to do is go back to like I think it was 2013 when the movie her came out within Phoenix where he like it's all about how he falls in love with his AI agent and voiced by Scarlett Johansson. Oh. Oh, go watch it. Yeah, it's a good one. It's a great, especially now seeing where we are 12 years later. It's pretty profound.
[21:31] Um, but it's interesting how that kind of becomes the first thing that comes up is relationships that we develop with this technology. And it makes sense because that's kind of how our brains are wired. It's just like, you know, for the human brain, um, it's easy to see faces. So, you can look at, you know, a brick wall and the fir and there's patterns in there, but the first thing you're probably going to see is probably a face or look at a picture and it's like I see like this is how our brain works. Same thing for these things. And again, we're we're social creatures and we're hardwired for these relationships. And so it makes sense that you're going to want to kind of connect with whatever this is.
[22:05] And in this case where this these tools are very smart and they can replicate a lot of things and create these patterns, it's easier to connect with them. I mean, a lot of times people will tell me too like with their AI chat bots, most people it's like, I love my chatbot. Again, in love is a whole other thing, but even just like I love my bot. Well, yeah, it's you. Yeah, exactly. Of course. It's like this per this bot just gets me. And I think that's the thing that you got to understand that people need to get. It's like, okay, you got to understand you cuz like you trained it. You put it in. You put it in there. It's a reflection of you. Just remember that if you don't like yourself, perhaps I don't know if they would like it. We'll see. But yeah, you know, but I think that we're going to see a lot more people kind of falling in love with them. I think there's going to be some major issues with that.
[22:48] Um, that one does kind of concern me, too. But, you know, to have a have some camaraderie and have like, you know, okay, this is a um, you know, a trusted source for information or trusted source so I can kind of just talk to it or whatever. But just still remember, at least for now, you know, it's an algorithm. Yeah. You know, and it's and it is you. It'll probably think for itself a little bit more. Can some of these kind of can now, but in the fusere it'll it'll evolve and change. But for right now, it's just, you know, just be aware.
SMALL BUSINESS FEARS AND AI ADOPTION
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[23:16] This is still, you know, a savvy algorithm. So then in the framework of like small business, what do you think is a foundational assumption you see a lot of small business owners have with AI that you think is either a wrong foundational kind of assumption that they have? Like you're talking to a lot of small business owners out there. What's the what do you see? Where are they off in their assumptions? So this is an interesting question because I'll say what it is and then this could still happen. Yeah. And right now it really is it's it's fear. Fear. Fear. I And there's seven big areas of fear. The the three that I kind of hear the most are number one, well, I'm afraid of it. I'm not going to use it because it's going to take my job. Yeah.
[23:56] I'm afraid of it. I'm not going to use it because if I do, I'm going to lose my human connectedness and business is all about relationships. True. And it's going to make my customer service worse. Um it's going to, you know, eliminate my need for staff and all these things. And that's right now I tell everybody it's like don't don't worry about the AI taking your job yet. Yeah. Worry about the person who knows AI better than you right now. But again that in the fusere like that's some degree of that is probably going to happen. Yeah. So I think it's this really weird thing of just well now small businesses like don't worry it's not going to happen.
[24:31] It's like yeah most likely it will happen but not yet. And so in the in the in the meantime, use these tools that are going to make you a lot of money or going to do a lot of things or help you out with a lot of stuff. And then if you're savvy, you'll make more money. If you're not, you'll go out of business. Yeah. Yeah. And we don't have all the answers yet. So I think it's that fundamental fear that I don't know what's going to happen. You know, it's uncertain. I get it. And this fear that we've never seen anything kind of like this, but at the same time, it's like, dang, these cool these tools are cool. Yeah. And terrifying at the same time.
[25:04] I worry about the small business owner who tells me, "I don't like it. I'm not going to use it." Yes. Those are the small business owners that I am the most worried about today. Um the I don't like it, I'm not going to use it line tells me that they're not setting themselves up for success in the fusere. Right. I don't like it is fine all day long, but you still have to be willing to evaluate its capabilities to strengthen your business. Yeah. And um I worry that foundational core is going to unfortunately put a lot of businesses out of business. I agree with you and I think that's where I'm at too and that's why for the Better Business Bureau, that's why we started to do all these trainings and education. So when I started to use it for just myself in 2004, which that wasn't that long ago, but in AI world, that's like a decade ago. I mean, if you really think about it, 2004. Yeah. So that is like two decades ago. Yeah. No, exactly. Okay. I'm I'm sorry. 2024.
[26:05] 24. Okay. Sorry. I was thinking like apologize. What AI were you using in 2004? Wow. No, it's it's called it's a Friday and it's been it's been a week. It's been a Yes. So 2024 when ChatGPT 3.0 came out and ironically you That's when you started using Yeah. And you can't use ChatGPT 3.0 anymore. I mean that's that's how fast, right? I was excited when it came out. I It's like this is I remember when I first saw I'm like wait what is it and it's doing its little thing and I'm like what is this like it didn't it didn't compute and now it's you know standard but at the same time it's like this is cool and so I started using it for me and then had my I got to get my team on board with this because if I start using this and then they don't I'm going to pull out ahead and so let's balance. So we started using it together. So we started using it together and then as we started using it together as a team and leveling up that's when it was like wait a second this is the same thing for business right obviously individuals and businesses well then cities that do this well are going to level up states that do this well are going to level up countries holy crap this is an economic development tool it is amongst everything else that it is and I'm like oh my god we got we got to tell small businesses and so I looked at in our landscape here in Colorado strings and it's like, okay, who's going to who's going to do this?
[27:19] Because usually it's not, you know, BB, we do we do training in education. Yeah. But it's like, well, this should be over here. This should be over there. And it's like, you know what? I'm just going to start it and when somebody wants to partner, let's partner. Let's just go. We don't have time to wait. We don't have time to figure it out. So BBB and I, we just went with it because of everything you said. If people don't start implementing these tools and again, we're what, August right now of 2025. You got like six months maybe to a year to kind of start fiddling around with it. Yeah. And or you're like you're done. You are.
[27:52] I've never seen anything like this before. It's or it's it's exploding so fast and it's developing and growing so fast that if you don't get on board right now, you're going to be so far behind a year from now that it's going to be impossible to catch your business up. Yeah. Like you could catch up developmentally and such, but having a whole business get ahead of this Yeah. There's no way that's tough. What would you say to that fundamental assumption that my business doesn't need to use AI? I'm a pizza shop. I'm a clothing store. I'm a retail outlet. Whatever. You know, these things where they feel like maybe they're insulated a little bit because they're not a quote unquote tech company. Yeah.
[28:30] How does this apply to those types of businesses? No, this is another good question. I mean, we've had at BB in the past, this similar I'll start with that first and then I'll get into this. um conversations with businesses where they've and they've done it and they've made it work which this next thing won't work. I don't have a computer. I run my business off my phone and it's like how are you doing? Oh my gosh. Like way to go. Like congratulations. Like I'm impressed. I don't know how you did that. Or I don't have a website. I'm just on social media. And for some industries and some businesses like they can make it work. I would not recommend that, you know. And I think and we're not talking about the vast majority of people, but there's there's still people that are that are doing that or and then with AI, it's kind of like, well, this is what I hear a lot too. It's like I'm gonna adopt this approach and it's like, well, I'm going to wait and see.
[29:18] And I think with everything in business, you know, sometime you can kind of get away with that. Yeah. Not this time. Like you can't. And so that's what I'm telling people in business right now. It's like, look, this thing is so pervasive and it's doing so many different things and you know, are your Google, you know, impressions dropping? Are people finding you? Oh, yeah. Like, my impressions are down. That's because SEO is dying. It is. Well, I don't understand. Well, that's because people are using Google for search and they're not sending people to you. There's this AI summary on there, right?
[29:50] And so, people don't understand that the game is changing the way they've known it. And it's like you have to understand how AI works because one, you need to use it for your business. Two, you understand how it works because that's how people are going to find you. They're going to go to an AI chatbot or what we're calling them now is answer engine. So it's SEO for search and then AEO for answer, which is these, you know, LLMs, large language models like ChatGPT. And so if you don't understand what people are typing into that and then they just give an answer. Yeah. So in Google it's like 10 blue links and it's not even that anymore. It's a bunch of sponsored stuff and AI. It's got to be weird. It is weird.
[30:24] Um, but in in AI land, it's like here's five. If you ask for more, it'll give you a few more. But that's it. Just here's the answer and it might be right and it might not be right. So, that's why I'm telling people it's like and this will kind of get their attention of like, oh, because they're thinking AI and like ChatGPT and writing emails. I'm like, yes, that and a thousand other things. But if you're not findable inside these answer engines in this new aeo world where I tell everybody this, it's like the brands of the fusere that will survive are the brands that have the best answers. Your brand moving forward is not going to just be about these other things that it's been so important. We're all trained on these things. It's like you got to think different. If you don't have good answers, if you don't have good content, if you're not being honest and truthful, you're done. So you got to relearn how to do all this stuff.
[31:12] and everybody sorry you got to redo your websites. Yeah. So I'm telling them it's like you have to one thing to have the skill. It's another thing to learn how customers are finding you. The other part they're kind of like yeah it's scary and you know it's bad for the environment and all these things all these fear fear. Then when you start telling them because they see it they see this part. Yeah my Google stuff's like dropping. Well here's why. Wait what? And that's one of the classes we offer BBB. It's free. And they're like can I when how do I learn this? I come to class. like come in here and we'll talk about it. But that's when they kind of get it. But again, there's so, as you know, there's so much there's so much more to it than that. But I'm just trying to figure out what's the angle that I can get to get people's attention, rip the band-aid off, and get them to move. Like, that's what I'm trying to do right now.
[31:58] I didn't think that's what this would be, but that's really what it is. It's like, wake up. Let me help you. Wake up. Talk to these folks over here. Uh, talk to that person that's great or whatever. Just move. Just do something. What is the percentage of the small businesses that you work with who actually intentionally adopt AI into their business versus the ones that really aren't? Do you have an idea of what that is? So, another really good question because when you look at the data that's out there, we don't have a ton of data yet about this, but here's what we do know. At the enterprise level, large business level, obviously there's more, you know, imp, you know, people are using it more, but even at that level, there's not as much as you'd think really. So this is what's really interesting that people don't understand this but in 2020 2024 um when the AI came out for chat the 3.0 it like a re an invisible reset button was hit because this technology is so powerful it's it doesn't matter if you're a small business or a large business like everything in between.
[32:58] It's like everybody just so you know like the reset button was hit. We all went back to zero and it's a freaking race. So, what's cool about this right now, and it's this is temporary, if you're a small business or a large business, like everybody's trying to figure this out, and this technology is extremely affordable. So, in the past, it would only be available because it's been around, this type of stuff's been around for a while, but this version is way better and it was expensive. So, now small businesses that are using it early, early adopters are going to level up quicker. And again, for everybody right now, it's all about market share. So, grab market share fast. use these tools to accelerate to go like I tell everybody go go go quick because you're able to get more market share. So when you look at the research and the data again, larger businesses are using it more. Um medium-sized businesses are using it. Small business not a lot nationally. Nonprofits like there's not even any data really.
[33:53] They're not using it, you know. But but I will say in this town, Colorado Springs specifically, like that's why we're I think we as a city are kind of banding together and I think we're going to end up being this is awesome to me. It's like this weird anomaly for cities of our size and small businesses where we're going to have like a higher use comparatively everywhere else because people just aren't doing what we're doing this in this city. Well, we're spreading the message and we have a plan and we have, you know, a summit coming up and there's things that are happening at the state level and all these things about AI, but overall like everybody's behind.
[34:28] Everybody's behind. And I would say in this town specifically, we're we're getting some some I we're at the beginning of getting people to get onto this stuff. Yeah. So I would say six months ago taught to everybody come through classes and it's like no, I'm not using it. Now people are coming back the second or third time to these classes and they're all kind of using it now. So, I went from because I pull everybody at the beginning and zero people were using it seven months ago and now when I'm pulling people that show up whether they've come been to the class or they're new to the class, I would say probably 70 to 80% of people are using it.
[35:03] Now, that doesn't mean they're using it well, right? But they're using it and that counts. That's all that matters. That's awesome. Yeah. But we got we got a long way to go. I'm in the same I mean I've sat in a lot of your presentations probably close to the beginning. Um, and then, you know, I've done a number of other things in the community. But that's interesting. I remember back at the beginning of the inception, you would see those hands like a few kind of come up like, "Yeah, I'm using it, but I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm using it." Yeah. You get the two or three in the room and we're like high-fiving each other like, "We're cool kids." Now, most are raising their hands, which is encouraging. It is. It is. So, the one thing I'm hearing now because people are beginning to use it, which is good. The thing that terrifies me that I'm hearing more of is they'll say, "Hey, Jonathan, I'm using AI." Awesome.
[35:51] Yep. Using AI, using it every day. Like, we're feeling pretty good about myself. And guess what else I've got? Like, what's that? I've got my AI guy or gal that's like my expert. It's like, you're doing what? And so, this is the thing I'm trying to tell people now. It's like, please don't do that. But that's what we're used to, right? It's like, I've got my IT team or person. Oh, I've got an HR expert. I've got a cyber expert and that and that works. Not for this. If you want to have like a subject matter expert that'll help, you know, push you and do some training or whatever, but to people are like, oh yeah, this is the person who's assigned going to do it for my company, it's like no, everybody needs everybody has to do it. If that's your smartest AI user, that's fine. Yeah.
[36:38] have them teach you, train you, push you, make you uncomfortable, but everybody has to use it. And so that's a trend I'm like, "Oh, no. No, no, you everybody has to use it. You can't assign somebody to just do it for your company. Like that's not how this works. It's not your IT person." No, no, no. I think just in the course of this little conversation, we hit a bunch of fundamental assumptions like just even this one, right? that the assumption that you don't need to be the one doing it that you can like bring on your young I guess what would now be like a Z or an alpha would be like the early adopters age wise like they're coming in and they're the ones figuring out I've been watching like millennials getting millennials challenged on like I got adopted know the most millennials yeah so all right let's go back to the bucket let's see what else there is let's see what else we got in here
SKILLS BUSINESS OWNERS NEED TO DEVELOP
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[37:26] okay question number three what are the key skills a business owner needs to develop to successfully manage and leverage AI is a good one. So, um there's a couple of things and this is kind of what we're teaching at BBB, but it also lines up with some of the national research that I've seen. So, number one is if you're going to like you just need to use it. So, assuming that, right, okay, what do I do? This is the question like what do I do? Okay, you just need to start using it. Well, how do I how do I learn how to use it? Well, one, download the free version and start talking to it. Mhm. or come to a AI class that we're offering or any there's a bunch of stuff you can get that that are there online, but you got to start using it.
[38:05] Um number two is like you got to pull your team. So your whole team needs to use it. So poll your staff. So when I started using it at BBB to everybody told me I like 75% they're like yeah we're good with this. And then 25% that were like uh no I don't want to use this. And then I and then I pulled them and then it was really like 50% were like hell no. 25% were like, "Uh-uh." And 25% were then like, "Yes." So, they're telling my face, "Yes." And they really were like, "No way." But I never would have known that. Yeah. So, pulled them anonymously, got some great data from that. And then we sat down and we talked about it at team meetings for like two months.
[38:44] And we just we went slow to go fast and was like, "Well, why?" Well, here's why. And it was mostly fear and lack of understanding and educ we learned. And so, that's but that's the second piece that happens with this. Do it together as a team. A lot of companies are just here are these resources and here are these tools and go figure it out. That doesn't work really well with this because you only have some people do it and some most people won't. But if you kind of learn together and show that it's okay to stumble and fail because we're all learning together, your team will learn quicker. So you got to bring them along, survey them, talk about it, get to the fears, and then bring them along.
[39:20] Then number three is where you work on your AI use policy. And that AI use policy is critical. What can you do? What do you want to do with it? What are you not doing with it? You gota be specific, too. Yes, you do. And then at the beginning of my my policy, because we've had these conversations, too. It's like, John's moving really fast on AI. Um, oh my god, are we going to have jobs anymore? She's going to out. It's like, oh, that's a great no, I'm not going to outsource your stuff, right? So, on the very top of our policy, it says we are a human centric company. And we define what that means. So you got to be clear with your team like what are we doing? Why are we doing it?
[39:55] And then that kind of will set the stage for you to kind of grow into it. Then you got to you got to pay for it for your staff. Like you got to make the right investment, do some research and all this kind of stuff. And then the fifth thing is you got to figure out your strategy to continually do education and training. That's just the first five key steps just to start. Yeah. And then some ongoing at the end of course with training. But you got to do that in the beginning too. When you say, I want to go back to the very beginning, just get started. Just use it. So, for a lot of people hearing that term, just use it. Well, how do I use it? What do I do? What's that first step that you take? Download it and then you set up your account, enter your email, your password, and you're staring at that chat, and you're like, "Okay, it's asking me to ask it something, but I don't know what." which is awesome and terrifying because you get this blank screen and it says in the little box like ask me anything. Yeah.
[40:49] And you're like that's that's freaking scary. It's like over overwhelming. I'm like wait what I remember my first prompt I'm like uh oh my gosh so much pressure. This is a blank screen. Yeah. This is a blank paper. It's like anxiety. Yeah. So what question or what prompt would you tell that first time user staring at that blank screen? Do you have any good prompts to start off with? Yeah. So I think and again this is you know there's a personal use thing but for business it's like it's really you know start a conversation because I people will ask me okay before I download it like no just download it. No no before I download it what book should I read what video should I watch like no just trust me just download it and and ask a question and it really it really is it's just going to be like it's a conversation. Hi, I'm Jonathan.
[41:38] It's the first time I'm I'm using this this tool. Like, what can you do? Give, you know, and so it'll kind of tell you some things like, okay, great. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Because then the second question you want to ask it is, you know, this is where I work. This is what I do. What are some things that you might be able to help me with to make my job easier, to help me with some of my tasks? And then it's really going to start kind of cooking. Good. And then and then it's just and just keep talking to it because you know as you all both know it's like the rabbit trails you go down which is awesome and sometimes like so glorious how it's three hours later. Wait what? But I learned a lot. Uhhuh.
[42:14] And again it's like this is the so this is some of the most advanced technology our species has invented at some of the lowest barrier to entry we've ever created. Yeah. Because you just got to be able to communicate. Yeah. Typing talking doesn't matter what language you speak. I mean it just have a conversation like you would with a human and that's the biggest and that's hard because most people are well this is a robot it's not alive so I'm used to Google searching and so they're kind of stuck sticking and that's still okay it's not the best but that's where people start and you got to get better and more and once it becomes more conversational then it's it but again it's like asking it like here's where I work here's what I do what could you help me with like give me some ideas and then and then that's usually where it just kind of takes them down the path and two hours later and it's like, whoa, that was crazy.
[43:02] That was crazy. Yeah. Um, do you guys remember your first prompts? Yes. I remember my first one I did. I do too. Do you? I don't remember my first prompt. No. So, mine was Oh, this doesn't know anything. Yeah. And so, I was like, I'm going to give this talk about social entrepreneurship in like a couple days. It's like I bet you even doesn't even know what social enterprise is. So, write me a write me a three minute speech because I didn't want a long one just to test it. Write me a three-minute speech on social entrepreneurship. Pretty generic because I didn't know any better. Yeah. But I did that and then it wrote this three-minut speech and I was like, "Holy [expletive] like it's not 100% accurate, but it knows what it is." That was my like aha moment of like, "Oh, it freaking knows what it is.
[43:48] How does it know?" Well, now I know, but at the time I'm like, that's pretty damn impressive because it got like it was like 60% right, 65% right. Didn't sound like me yet, but at the same time, it's like that's pretty good. Nothing else, that's a great template to how to introduce this topic. So, it was like, no freaking kidding. No way. Yeah, that's incredible. What was yours? Mine was um harassment training. I was kind of in this place of I wanted to revamp my harassment training, but I've been training harassment for 25 years and it's always such a robotic training to train. It's just like don't grab someone's butt. Here's the law. This is your definition. quid pro quo, you know, all of the things. And so I really wanted to shake it up. And so I had heard about this ChatGPT thing. I'm like, I'm gonna test this thing. I'm g see. And so I asked ChatGPT to give me some innovative ideas to integrate into harassment prevention training. You guys, it came back with some great ideas. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I can actually make this training not boring." And I did. Actually, some of the stuff from that very first prompt I still use in my training today. Oh wow.
[45:03] Yeah, that's impressive. Yeah, he killed it for me. Good old Bob. I remember my aha moment because I think when I first started it was just like generic prompts, but I remember the first time when I realized like, oh, this is really powerful and it was being able to collaborate and brainstorm with it an idea that I had been thinking about. And so I said, hey, this is the idea and this is some of the framework and these are kind of where I'd like to go with it. Uh, and I said, take on kind of an expert marketer's perspective and help me think about language and communicating this thing. And all of a sudden, it just took what was my kind of felt like gobbledygook of like concepts and ideas and it organized it in this way that all of a sudden was like, "Oh, that's actionable. Oh, that says it better than I could have said it." And it was just that kind of but it was what I said, right? It was my words. It was just reframed in a way that felt cleaner, more clear. And that's where I think using it. And the thinking front is such a beautiful tool. That was the first thing for me. is like, "Oh, this is a companion to help me think about stuff that I can just kind of get out there." And sometimes, you know, when you're on your head, just kind of hamster wheels and doesn't really go anywhere.
[46:14] And you can talk to another person, but if you don't have people that can hold space for you or whatever, right? This can do that for you. And then all of a sudden, it's helping you gain clarity on something that you were to spend it on. A companion. I love that word. And I think that's a great, you know, point to make too in terms of like the world of work and jobs because I think one that's what it is, right? It's like this thinking thought partner with you, right? I think we're pretty close to where, you know, you go to a job and on your first day, they issue you a laptop, maybe a cell phone or whatever. I think we're for savvy companies, we're probably like a year out, maybe two. But where you're going to get your laptop and they're going to issue you your own agentic AI chatbot that comes on the computer.
[46:53] Yeah. So, one, this bot is teaching you and training you about your job. Oh, 100%. I got a question about policies and procedures. I got a question about time off. basics things, but then you know what? Help me. We got to build the spreadsheet. We got do this, you know, and so it's with you all the time. And then here's what's what's wild is like one, it makes so much sense because people be more productive, but two, that person leaves in six months or a year. Well, all the work's in there and so the next person comes and you just kind of keep building on it versus usually for small businesses, it's like, man, I got to start over. It's like a three-month ramp up time for training and blah blah. It's like, not with this chatbot that's there. who's your companion training you, teaching you, helping you.
[47:34] It's going to have all that institutional knowledge for the system and the people that have held that position. That's where this is going. That's exciting.
AI OWNERSHIP, BOTS, AND HIRING
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[47:42] And the so the to pause there, the flag the danger that I see and you kind of talked about this in your five things, but is making sure that business owners own the bots that people are working with, right? Because we know and we've had many people on this couch talk about in the small business world, they bring on that first hire or they bring on that other key person into their organization to help them grow and scale it and then all of a sudden that person leaves them to go do it themselves, right? It's the classic eth, right? They get into a job and then they can do it better. Well, if you get into a job and you start training your own bot and that bot is now doing all this stuff and the company's not paying for it, so there's no rights over it. who owns that intellectual property that the bot and the employee created and then they could go and start a business and totally undercut you. So yeah, you have to own the bot and make sure that an employee can't walk away with it. I think that's the biggest danger that I see right now of small business owners.
[48:39] Totally agree and I think you're you're spot on about that and I think that's another reason why one businesses want it that you just they just got to invest in it because if you want your employees to use it and do it and whatever then you got to pay for it. The second thing is that yes that way you own it because in this sense you know you can get like the workspace one for a lot of these where it's owned by that company and so the information stays there because you are training it and that's some of the stuff that like most tools in the world it's why it's not really a tool you know you use it and it wears down it gets old or whatever and this thing actually gets better and gets smarter and that's what's crazy about this but if you yeah if you don't own that they can take it and again savvy people, savvy businesses are starting to ask people, you know, interview questions like, "Let me hire you based on your skills and and education, whatever." But then they're also going to ask them, "All right, well, how, you know, are you using AI?" Yes. What are you using? I'm using this. Okay. I want to pull out your AI. I'm going to prompt it. And I think in this room, we probably are all on the same page where if you watch somebody talk to their bot, you're going to get two pieces of information. They're going to tell you a ton. One, how are they prompting it?
[49:46] Yeah. Right. That's going to give you a ton of information. And then two, just the response that their bot gives them back. You're able to see instantly, oh, they've not trained this well. Yeah. Or, damn, that's pretty good. You did a good job. It tells you a lot about their personality, too. If their bot responds back to them, it tells you so much about that person's personality, how they interact. It's a reflection. It is. It's who you are digitally. Well, and I think something that I haven't really heard talked about and I'm curious what your thoughts are on this, but you're watching right now a lot of these big companies hire making these big hires, right? Like Meta, right? And they're they're paying now like hundred million dollars for people.
[50:30] What And I think what no one's talking about is what they're paying for is the AI that person has developed that they want to be bringing on. Yeah. And so at what point is now like you're talking about you're going to get to work and you have you know a bot but also what's the reality where I'm bringing my bot to work. I'm bringing this thing that I've been curating and I've been working with and I have developed and so you're hiring me but you're also hiring this other thing. Yes. And then that other thing is going to have to have some autonomy as it meshes with the business just like an employee has to mesh with the business and have some autonomy. But these are whole new frameworks of thinking that businesses need to start to build some scaffolding around. Otherwise, you're going to get caught out. And then talent pools again, if you don't have a bot that you develop to bring in, like what are you really offering? And you're you were so spot on with this and this is I'm I'm telling businesses the same thing. And you know, just anybody can tell it's like you got to stop thinking about like yes, you are good at what you do and you got great skill sets and that's awesome. However, if I, the employer, now have the choice between here's somebody with a great set of skills and they've got all the credentiing and everything that I need and they have zero AI skills, I'm going to go with the person who's got 50% what I'm looking for, but can prompt the crap out of this, I'm hiring them.
[51:45] Yeah. Because to your point, you're getting a two for one, a three for one, a four for one as an employee with I want the human and the person. They got to be a good culture fit. important, but they also have all these this knowledge and skill set and oh, you got a kick-ass bot that you're going to bring to work like immediately. I'm going to get three times the amount of productivity because that bot's ready to go in addition to the human, right? So, that's what people don't understand is that you got to invest in this and and build this thing up because this is a competitive advantage for you is if you got a fully trained bot, one, you got to know how to use it. two, if it's fully trained and it knows you well and you're in sync and it's a good companion and you're working and you're flowing, you're making it happen.
[52:27] Huge advantage to everybody involved and people are not thinking that way. It's just like, well, you know, I'm just using the free version. It's like, stop it. Spend 20 bucks a month. Don't go don't go to Starbucks a couple times. Like, come on. Yes. Because again, what did we learn in web 2.0 twice? And like web 2. Sorry, I just want to say this really quick. Like web 2.0 taught us if it's free, you're the product. Yeah. Yes. And so I think that we have to see the pattern of how these companies like have used the free models. And the same thing's happening in AI. So if you're going to have fear like be fearful of the free model cuz you're the product at that point. Drop the 20 bucks and then get it and use it and don't don't be the product anymore. Use it for what it is.
[53:09] And I think telling people that you're lucky it's 20 bucks and there's a $200 one. But that $20 version that we all use, it should be way more than that. And I'm happy right where it's at. Don't listen. Yeah. Yeah. Edit that part out. Don't Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because um in talking about choosing between the two people and a really good example is we were looking at a bunch of reports that Manis put together for me and I think it was Manis on this particular topic put together at least 8 to 10 reports all of which are anywhere from 20 to 40 pages each. If Manis probably took about 20 30 minutes to put it all together, including the second batch that I ran today, right? 20 30 minutes to put all of this reports, which is extensive research and data and you know just numbers everywhere and different geographic regions. It's extensive. If I would have had an employee without any AI skills, highly intelligent, even graduate from Harvard University, right?
[54:11] extensive research and write, you know, research skills. They can write the reports. It would take them months to put together these reports. Months and months and months. And I would have paid I don't want to know how much I would have paid for those reports to be assembled. So I will never choose that option when I can spend I mean with manas it's nominal dollars every single month and 30 minutes max to have the data and the information I needed in order to move forward. It only makes sense. So to your point, you know, you've got this highly skilled individual with no AI skills and you got this less skilled individual with AI skills. I'm with you. I'll choose the AI skills any day. It's going to save time, energy, and a ton of money.
[54:59] Yeah, absolutely. Let's get one more AI question in here. This is so fun. There's some other good ones in there. See if it's an AI question, right? If it's not, skip it. Let's just We'll go We'll go back. Keep play with the theme to the well here. I'm singing. All right. No, you check. You don't want You don't want to be singing. All right. Share a time when you received harsh criticism or feedback that initially stung, but ultimately proved to be incredibly valuable. That's not AI. Skip. Yes. Move on. That's like we want to get to the That sounds like good stuff. Interview question that I would ask. Behavioral interview.
[55:30] Okay. Jason works in an HR firm. What can I say?
CHOOSING TOOLS AND INVESTING TIME WISELY
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[55:32] We kind of talked about this one, but there's probably more to add. How do you balance the fear of being left behind with the fear of investing in the wrong AI technology? Yeah, let's talk about a good one. Oh, that's a good that takes us to the next level there. That no, love it. Okay. So, yeah. And again, I think yeah, the fear of being left behind versus, you know, investing in the wrong AI technology. I mean, the thing for me is that it's so it's so affordable that and I've only I've talked to two people in the last year and that's it. And by Oh, by the way, on my a my BBB AI classes, I ran the numbers the other day and since January, I've trained like 1500 people already across Colorado. It's like, "Holy kid can." But and of the 1500, I've only had two businesses tell me, "Well, I screwed that up. I made the wrong investment." And I'm thinking, am I'm like, "Oh, you spent hundreds of thousands of dollar. What did you do?" Yeah, I spent $7,000. And it was like, "Okay, $7,000, don't get me wrong, it's a lot of money, but in what we're talking about here, right, that's nothing." Yeah.
[56:37] You screwed up and you spent seven grand. Yeah. We screwed up royally. Not really. This is a non-issue. Yeah. I mean, it's like that's the worst you did really. Now, granted, with all the tools that are out there now, you could spend 10 or $20,000 probably pretty quickly. But at the same time, it's it's really about I think the issue to me is about wasting time. So, if you use if so, it's less about, you know, because again, I think the question is just like, yeah, fear of investing. So I think the right question with this we're talking about investment to me it's less about the money. It's more about the time.
[57:14] The wrong investment means you're screwing around and you didn't do it right or be strategic or think through it and so you invested the wrong amount of time into this. Yeah. If you invested the wrong amount of money, it's not going to be a lot and you can recover. But if you're screwing around, not using it well and not being strategic and you're wasting time, I think that could be catastrophic. That's the issue to me. That makes sense. So kind of like wasting time in so because when I think about the AI landscape, obviously it's so vast. We've been talking a lot about things like just chat and prompts, but then you've got the video side of things and what you can do from video production app.
[57:53] Then we've got like the workflow side of things and like the actual like JSON prompting, not JSON, but J, you know, the JSON prompting where you can like actually code prompt and like start designing websites and like all of this other technical piece that does require some technical knowledge. I think that's one of the things I've seen for the people that feel like are pretty far ahead on the AI front, like they know coding, so they know how to vibe code with it and they know how to do some of this stuff. So where do you feel like with the vast landscape, where is the time investment important right now?
[58:24] What does someone need to if they're going to learn, right, besides just using it and they're going to actually learn about AI, where should they be focused on? Uh so this is again a really good question and what I tell people is there's a couple things to this is like one and nobody likes this answer but it's like sorry again honest truth of this stuff. If you're not spending an hour a day playing around with this stuff, you're screwed. Yeah. And I don't have an hour a day. Well, okay. Worst case scenario, then this is worst case scenario. You should spend two hours a week at least. That's that's like the minimum.
[58:56] Yeah. And I got people are like, well, maybe an hour a month. It's like, whoa, you're done. I mean, so I think the first thing is like really making sure you're scheduling time to play around with stuff. Now, here's the other thing, too. It's like because people ask me this question like, Jonathan, how do you keep up with all the AI? It's like news fl. It's impossible. Yeah. So, I tell every just let that let it go. Like don't freak out. Don't have the anxiety of you're never going to stay caught up with this. Just don't worry about it. So, what you got to focus on or this is my rule of thumb. One, what are the tasks I'm trying to do? So, there's all this video stuff and it's like and I'm dabbling in it, but I'm not I don't need it yet.
[59:35] So, I'm playing around with it because I need to stay relevant with it, but then I'm going to come up with a this idea. You know what I want to do? I want to build this. Well, then I'm going to really learn because having a specific ask with a specific product with a specific goal. Yeah. will help you make any of this stuff work. So, the thing that you need the help the most with, start there. So, if video is cool to you, but you don't really need it, something with Excel or spreadsheets, go into the spreadsheet thing and figure out how and ask questions about how I'm trying to do this. Here's what I want to do because having an end product result that's going to get your brain working and you're going to start thinking like AI, which is the key to a lot of this stuff. You got to think with this stuff.
[1:00:09] Yeah. But again, when it comes back to, you know, how all this stuff kind of works and how you're trying to integrate it into your to your life, um I tell myself this too, my other rule is this. If I hear about a new product three times, then I look at it because there's new stuff all the freaking time. There is. And in the beginning, you're probably there, too. It's like, oh, new product, this is like 2024. Cool. I'm going to go look at that. Spend some time. A week would go by, then a new product comes out. Ah, it's cool. I don't have time. Not anymore. There's like six a day. Yeah. So, I gave up testing them all. If I hear about it three times and it can be comes across my feed or somebody tells me, "Hey, have you heard about this tool?" That's the third time. Okay, cool.
[1:00:51] That's my sign. I'm going to go that then I'll then I'll then I'll look at it. Yeah. So, you can't keep up with it. But if you're not spending time, structured time being strategic, you're never going to I'll have time later. No, you won't. No, you won't. There's my other thing we can talk about my mantra with all this which is busy is the enemy is strategy. Yeah, that's people are everybody's busy. It's like you can't be busy. You're gonna you're going to drown in this next evolution of the world. You got to be strategic. Yeah. I think it's also helpful to know that you know also putting your time into the right system understanding that AI there's specialties you know your different systems have different specialties. for an example, like I use three primary AIs. Yeah. I don't just stick with ChatGPT. He's kind of my generalist.
[1:01:36] Yeah. And then that's exactly perfect for what it what it does. He's kind of good at everything. Yeah. He gives me a little bit, but then if I really need to go into the data, you know, no, actually the big rabbit hole of a really big meaty juicy project, it's Manis all day long. But then I also have Perplexity. Perplexity has always been like my go-to for research. It's great at sourcing information and reliable information whereas ChatGPT is not always very reliable when it comes to sourcing information. Oh yeah, exactly. Perplexity is a lot less. So you know you have your primary tools and I think a lot of um a lot of individuals need to understand their job, what they do and what tools will complement what they do. Like your AI tools are way different from mine. We still have, you know, some similar ones, but often times you're talking about AI tools and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Like, um, what was the one we were talking about the other day? Oh, I forget. Anyway, um, but you use heck, this podcast is fully edited with AI.
[1:02:40] Yeah, I mean, it's it's a machine learning tool that can do all the jump cuts and kind of really save a lot of time uh to be able to do that. It feels it feels a little bit more machine learning. It's a little stretch to call it AI, I think, but that shows how like AI probably wrote some code that then could do some machine learning on just how to pick patterns and just kind of the trickle down effect. It can be very basic, but then also it can be very advanced on that front as well. But yeah, I think depending on the one thing I find is the clarity around what you need or what you're trying to get done will direct the types of tools that you need. Yeah.
[1:03:18] And so for me, sales and marketing is a totally different tool set within the AI space than what you might need on more like the coding side of things or what you might need more on the, you know, research side of things. So there's like knowing that is really important, I think, to start things off to start the process of what do you want what do you want to do? Yeah, absolutely. I remember seeing didn't you put a list out of AI tools and what their specialty was? Was it you or was that Pikes Peak Community College? probably community college. We're we're actually working on some of those things too for like Better Business Bureau. But what I want to do even locally or at the national level is here are some of the tools that and not that we recommend them, but just here are some of the tools that are safe and safe being defined as X, Y, and Z.
[1:04:04] Yeah. So, because that's another question I get a lot is like, well, should I use this tool? Like, is it does it work? Is it cool? It's like, who cares if it's cool or if it works? because a lot of the stuff coming out of China works and it's cool, but it's not safe based on privacy and this and that. So, you got to be you got ask different questions about it. You helped me when I was first evaluating Manis because I got I got added in as a beta user for Manis and so I was really excited reached out to you and you're like how are those terms of service? And you took the terms of service privacy policy.
[1:04:34] Yes. what's the terms of service and the privacy policy? And you ran it through your ChatGPT and said, "Give me the summary. What are the red flags? What should I be looking for?" And then you sent it to me and I'm like, "Okay, I can handle that. I can handle that. It seems pretty reasonable." Okay. I think there's a there's a few things I'm like, "H, but I guess it's kind of standard." Um, it was used with caution. It was. Yeah. But it wasn't a no. Don't use it at all. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But I think that's really helpful and the way you went about doing that. I learned a lot from that and now I do that regularly.
[1:05:06] Exactly. I do it all the time. Any new tool because there's a million. Yeah. It's like all right check this tool out chat my mine and it's and it will and now it knows it's like you it gives me a green gives me yellow caution or red like do not use this. There's no privacy policy. It's stealing your data. It's sending it to these servers that are not in the estate or whatever you know and it's like well yeah I'm not okay with that. But again, at least you know and you can make a strategic informed decision. Yep. Exactly. Absolutely.
AI WEARABLES AND COGNITIVE SECURITY
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[1:05:33] Okay. Not a bucket question, but one that I'm curious about. Will you adopt a AI wearable in the next year? Yeah, good question. And absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. What are you most excited about like on the wearable front? I'm excited about So, when Johnny Ivy went to go work with OpenAI and Sam Alman, I mean, they're developing some what the rumors are. Yeah, this is freaking cool, you know, and terrifying, right? That's how most my stuff is. It's like is awesome and terrifying. But again, it's like absolutely yes. I mean, there's going to be a lot of functionality. We're going to see a lot of these things.
[1:06:09] They're already with us all the time with our phones, but in a in a more I think pronounced way. I think I'll be excited when there's stuff in my glasses. Yeah. And some of the tech that Google's working on with that is really freaking cool. Um, but I also, this made me think of this, too. I learned another term the other day. It's called cognitive security. Have you heard of this term? I hadn't heard of this either. And so what they talk about too, it's like you need to learn AI for your business and for the fusere, everything else. This is a great term. I'm gonna start using this more. It's like you need to learn AI for cognitive security. What cognitive security is all about is you need to understand how AI works so that it can't be used against you.
[1:06:44] So, and that could be scams, that could be a whole bunch of other things. But if you don't understand how the technology works and how to spot some of this and it's getting harder and harder, but even so, like you can kind of process and think like that's not possible or that doesn't make sense or the physics are awful or whatever. Cognitive security is when you understand AI well enough to know when it's being used against you in a in a nefarious way and that's going to be really important for all of us in the fusere. So, new term I learned the other day. That's a good one. Okay, excuse my ignorance. AI wearable.
[1:07:14] So, tell me more about that. I guess I don't know much about the AI wearable. So, you mentioned glasses. Would it be more like a smartwatch 2 or what does that look like? It I mean the three categories that I've seen is glasses with a camera. Okay. So, constantly recording and being able to process the information, be able to do live streaming, being able to actually see a feed on the inside of the lens. It's seeing what you're seeing. It has a speaker, so it's talking to you. It can listen. It's recording every conversation. And so it's basically just watching you throughout your day and tracking everything that's going on.
[1:07:50] So and Meta seems to be the most they're doing a lot of work on that front. That leads have a product that's in the market. It's being used. It's being talked about. You're starting to see it. The adoption is pretty low on it, but okay, that seems there's that category. The other one I've seen a lot is just like a microphone that you can wear. Um the biggest company that's made a splash here is Friend. I don't know if you've seen them, but they friend.com. They spent like $4 million just on the domain to have friend.com and it's a little disc that's like a necklace that you wear and it's listening and then it texts you through your phone. So, you're talking to it through your phone as like a text thread, but it's like listening to the conversation and it's like, "What did you think about like what Jonathan said?" It's like a literal friend that you're interacting with. Gossip behind your back with AI. Exactly. Dirty.
[1:08:40] Now it's cognitive. cognitive security. Is that what you said? Like this idea that now all of a sudden you won't know when you're being recorded and you won't know when you're, you know, your words are being put into someone else's AI and all that, right? So just that type of security thing. And then I think the third one is like watches, right? And the piece of how AI is going to come into the watch front. But from a medical front, the wearable thing seems to be making huge movements. Even the government's really start I mean I heard some stuff like in the next few years they're saying this stuff's coming online they want everyone to have a wearable to track you know health and whatnot and some of the advancements that come through there and then um yeah I think glasses I mean Zuck said something crazy like three or four billion people wear eyeglasses already and so right we're all wearing them so it's like how that's the easiest place of adoption of getting people to wear to wear glasses so I don't know that's what I see on And if you really want to kind of freak yourself out, uh I think it's season two of Black Mirror.
[1:09:41] There's an episode, you might have seen it, where it's called the it's the grain. Yeah. Where and again, this is where it's a little sci-fi, but it's embedded in your eyeball. No. And then you have like a little device you can like put it on a screen or share it with people, but it's like let me record, you know, like husband and wife arguing. It's like, that's not what you said. That's what I said. Hold on. Let me show you. And then play the video back. And it's like, uh, but it's all the memories. Wow. And that's what you know Ivy's developing right now with ChatGPT. So, and again like this is cool, right?
[1:10:13] And it's also like kind of terrifying and it's going to change everything is what we know for sure. How we interact, how we talk to people, how we do everything. Um yeah, we're probably people already now are probably recording more than ever because if they've got all these whether it's Otter or there's things you can put on your phone, you can wear them. I mean, all the recording devices are all over the place and they're going to be everywhere because again, everybody's already doing it. You know, some of those note takers, you know, those meetings where they're like, "Deny, deny, get out of here." Yes. You know, I love my noteaker.
[1:10:40] I hate notes. That's the worst part of my profession, taking notes. When you have just AI turned on all the time and your glasses are aware, I mean, that's where it's going. So, yeah, be careful what you say in the fusere. Yeah, exactly.
RESOURCES, CLASSES, AND THE BLAZE AI SUMMIT
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[1:10:54] People should be anyway, but you know, now you're getting recorded. Um, we covered some great ground as we kind of start to think about landing the plane. I feel like you've already given some great advice, but where can some small business owners continue to get some resources? Talk about the summit coming up. I'm going to be there. I'm super excited about it, but give us a little bit of insight as to what's on what's percolating for you right now. Yeah. Yeah. So, again, I always tell people this because there again, these are free classes. So, Better Business Bureau of Southern Colorado, we're offering them. I'm teaching most of them. Um, so go to bbbsc.org. Okay, that's the website. So, it shows Southern Colorado. Check that out. There's three classes in there. Okay.
[1:11:32] Uh the first one is introduction to Chad GPT. So, it's just like basics. Here's how you prompt it. Here's how you use it, etc. Um class number two is harnessing generative AI for small businesses. I think you were in the beta for that one in the original one. Yeah. Um and so that's really kind of the fundamental beefiest one that I'm teaching all over the place now. And then the third one is more advanced, but it's called it's basically it's called beyond Google, which is like this SEO versus AEO. So it's like how do you redo your whole web page now for this AIdriven world around these answer engines and how do you optimize it for that? So these classes are free. I teach each one once a month. But then what I'm telling people is usually in life you can come back and do a class once a year. not this stuff like you should at least come back at the very least probably like every other month maybe once a quarter but if you want to come back every month it's the curriculum is always changing it so I'm changing the curriculum probably for each class um two three times a week I mean it's it's absolutely it's insane how it's always it's always different so keep coming back so one take classes even if they're not BBBS take them online there's a bunch of good free stuff take classes and then keep taking more because a lot of people like I took a class six months ago and I think I'm good. It's like six months ago that's like two years ago you know that's yeah it's useless. So take classes do that.
[1:13:01] But the other thing too is the summit the AI summit that's coming up on August 15th. So Better Business Bureau we partnered with Brandon Eldridge and Pikes Peak SBDC. So there are partners in this and again the whole thing is what I noticed and this is why we started teaching classes too and then decided to do a summit. The summits there's a bunch already. Yeah. They're one they're really expensive like thousands of dollars and then two it's like well that's great however what they do is they teach directly to enterprise level people and it's like one data scientist to another data scientist and a lot of these it's like look I get some of this most of the stuff but a lot of those it's like okay you're speaking English and I don't know what you're talking about or okay I get what you're saying that's cool I don't know how to implement that like that's interesting but I don't know how to do anything so This summit is specifically geared towards small businesses and it's geared with and all the all the presenters. We got some great presenters lined up. It's specifically geared towards I want it to be fun, interesting, no jargon and be specific with tools that you can use like that day or you start using them tomorrow so that it's relatable and it's useful. Cool.
[1:14:12] Because it was one data scientist to another. That's cool. That's great. That's interesting. But that's not going to help our small business owners. like they're relying on us. Yeah. To kind of decipher this information for them and bring them things they can use today. It's like you all three of us like you go to that data scientist, you know, convention and then bring this like okay cool like message received. Here you go. So that's what this is really all about is is actionable things for them that they can use like tomorrow to get better. That's what it's all about. Love it. Oh yeah. Blaze AI Summit is the name. And um I'm excited. It's gonna be fun. We're gonna have blast. I'm I'm looking forward to it as well.
[1:14:46] Yeah. Yeah. Wow, I got some work to do with my AI now. I know. So do I. I'm thinking about ideas. Like now I got to go pick out a new pair of glasses. Do some shopping, right? Brian will love that.
CLOSING REMARKS
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[1:15:04] All right. Well, Jonathan, thank you. I appreciate you, my friend. Helping out our community. Um, it's just inspiring that there was a need in our community within, you know, filling the AI gap and creating interest and buzz and education around it. And although it may not have been your specialty or even, you know, you your business market or plan, but here you are. You stepped up for our community and helped lead the charge in probably making the Pikes Peak region a leader in the nation. So, trying to that's the plan. And it's like we can all do this together and that's going to push our economy forward.
[1:15:42] So yeah, we're all in this one together. Well, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And then, you know, just joining us on Grandma's couch. Thanks for having me. This is great. This is fun. So everybody, Jonathan Libert, the one, the only. Um, please follow him. Join in on one of his AI classes. Make sure that you immerse yourself in AI so you don't fall further and further behind. re-watch this podcast or relist to this podcast because it's chock full of really important information, especially if you haven't had the courage to jump into AI, but that's a lot to do. So, one little step at a time.
[1:16:23] All right. Absolutely. So, we're going to go ahead, as Jason says, land this plane and we're going to wrap up today's Show Me Yours. Jason, Jonathan, thank you very much and we'll see you next time. See you. Bye. [Music]
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