hello everybody welcome to Show Me Yours i am your co-host Rihanna Werner along
with my friend and co-host Mr jason Sheffield hey everybody and here we are
going to have another wonderful conversation about the icky sticky yucky mistakes of business but also the
reality of business that actually in my humble opinion I don't even know what's going to happen in this conversation but
I have a feeling that there's a happy ending there always is anyways I am
excited to introduce all of you to gosh our longtime friend um but also
my guide in real estate uh he is the wizard of all real estate res wizardry
especially when it comes to commercial real estate so everybody I'd like to introduce you to Caleb David hey
everyone good to be here with you he's with David Commercial david Commercial real estate commercial just David
Commercial right either one works yeah okay david Commercial it's got a great ring you should see his logo it's like
the best commercial real estate logo ever made um anyway so Caleb and I met
actually you met us through my husband Brian yeah yeah he was on a board for a nonprofit and you were helping them with
a real estate deal and we quickly started to look for real estate for our businesses we wanted to move out of the
house because well that was old um and then
Caleb helped us f find our first property um
we did a lot of searching and we changed directions on you a lot we did
we pivoted though we did i blame Yummy it was his fault he planted a seed he
told us we needed to We were looking for space in um Monument we wanted to stay up in Monument and we went to oh my gosh
small business week event that he was speaking at today this morning we were just at a small business week event and
um talked with him and he was talking about all of the wonderful things happening in downtown Colorado Springs
especially in the small business arena and then uh literally five minutes after that conversation with Yummy we called
up Caleb and was like "So switch it up we're going downtown it was great i know
with no hesitation you're like "Yep okay cool let's do it." Yeah yeah so then we
got booted out that was a whole That was a whole story yeah yeah have you been ever ever kicked out of commercial real
estate because I have and not because of your fault no it wasn't it wasn't but here we are can we
retell that story i need like a badass story like we throw rager parties or something
it was our fault it was our fault we were shooting guns
had the beer keg going yeah keg stands at the HR office
brilliant that bet tracks it totally does yeah how'd you
know our brand voice the sound of a kegarator um no but
you actually helped us negotiate ourselves out of that deal um because they wanted us to walk away but you're
like "Whoa whoa whoa you have a lease they have to buy you out of that lease." So we actually got paid to move yes
which it took some finangling you know and some bending over backwards but we were able to find this space for you
guys and it's worked out wonderfully oh my gosh we're so blessed yeah so but
having an expert like that who we can turn to and say "Hey this is happening we don't know what to do." and having
them say "Whoa here's what we do." And guide us down the right path we came out
20 times better than we thought we would have oh thank you you're very welcome i you
know sometimes they have happy endings they do they usually do they usually do
so um I have a question for you bring it
all right if your business had a theme song what
theme song would it be wow that is a great question i know right i'm going to
have to go um This is me from the uh what's that
what was that movie with Hugh Jackman in it oh the um Yeah
uh The Greatest Showman greatest Showman that's it i'm like Yeah yep i love that
yeah it's such a good one i haven't watched it either it's It's a good one to go back and rewatch that makes
perfect sense for you yeah it does this is like I remember Well we had a lot of private conversations during that time
but when you founded your business that was really your This is me moment it was
it was got goosebumps that's cool how cool okay
all right
we're going to draw a card all right you pick a card any card
read the card out loud and then we'll have a discussion what's your best excuse when you're
pulled over for speeding that's a good one that is I mean it would probably involve Mexican food and maybe really
strong coffee [Laughter]
done i mean
my grandfather told me once when I first got my driver's license if you ever get
pulled over always keep a water bottle next to you so you can just dump it on your lap
smart i know i would have never thought it what about you Jason okay so just I've
only been pulled over twice in my entire driving career wow really and both times
have been within the last probably three years and in fact most recently was a
couple weeks ago when we were driving down to New Mexico to go to the hot
springs at Ohho Caliente i had a car full of people with me you know in-laws
family and I get on one of those roads and just start driving and all of a sudden next thing I know I see this this
white truck on the opposite side pull off of the median lights turned on and
I'm like "Oh man that's me damn it." So pull over and I sit there and I'm like
"Okay." Like I'm nervous like I'm like really nervous cuz I really have never had this experience before like it's
been a minute of like "Okay what do you do what do I reminding everything?" Exactly right like and I'm I'm like I So
I'm kind again a lot of nerves so I can't think of anything so he comes up to the window and he's like "So uh you
were speeding why do you know why were you speeding?" And I was like "I don't know i just was I had no excuse i just like messed
up." I'm like "Yep I probably was speeding." He's like "I got you at 83." I was like "That sounds right." Like so I'm the worst person at being able to
get out of a situation thinking on my feet or any experience on how to do that so I don't I'm not a good one for this
one just straight up honesty was my play you know I have to say for girls
flirting always does work i mean we just have the natural ability to do it and
it's gotten me out of a few especially like being that you know naive little girl oh I'm so sorry Mr officer that
worked in my younger days now in my older days it's been a while since I've been pulled over so we'll have to give that a whirl one time we got pulled over
and Brian tried the flirting gig it was a female police officer and she just
looked at him like he was stupid she's just like "And let me double the file."
I thought if I started crying it might get a little awkward like "I'm so sorry officer i don't know what I'm doing i've
never done this before." At 40 like uh he's not going to believe that but it's
true that's true the things we do do you have a good pullover story you know once
I was pulled over in Mexico yes were you eating Mexican food i was not eating Mexican food coffee right i
had had a cocktail and apparently I ran a stop sign and it was just a day trip
we were coming off a boat and had rented a car and the officer was like "You're
coming to the station with me." And I'm like "I have 45 minutes to be back on the boat." And I can't remember exactly
how we got out of it i don't know if we paid him but we were able to get back on the boat but but yeah that feeling that
struggle of I might not be getting back on that boat oh that would be a moment and end up in a Mexican jail you know oh
my gosh so or any jail for that matter it doesn't matter what country but yeah so just thinking oh well I guess we'll
see how this plays out and thankfully happy ending thank goodness oh my gosh
we wouldn't be friends today no we wouldn't you could still be stuck in Exactly
does not sound good whoever paid off that cop thank you exactly
okay i'm curious i'm always when we talk with business leaders um often I find leaders enjoy reading or maybe have had
a book of something that has really impacted them so what's a book that not only has impacted you but your favorite
book to gift to other people oh like the book you've given away could be a
business book or not but what's just a book that you find you've given away a book that I've given away a lot is
called Bread and Wine actually it's by um an author out of originally Michigan but now they're in New York um and I am
completely blanking and she's one of my favorite authors but bread and wine it's a combination of just talking about the
importance of food and gathering around food and community and um that book was
actually very instrumental when I start changing the name of my nonprofit back in the day to the table initiative to
get people around the table having conversations that are typically difficult or triggering um usually if
there's food in someone's mouth you know they're they're not talking as much hopefully
so that's one and I would say gosh anything by Bnee Brown you know um and
um Father Richard Roar is another one that I really really has been very life-changing for me so I would say
probably my favorite of his is um Falling Upward love it read that book great one
mr roar is a I'm a big fan as well huge fan so I I can we could jam on that but
that's not really this podcast i mean it could be but if only he was here if only we're grown-ups so we can do whatever we
want that's true just saying
well I'm such I'm so predictable here because everybody knows this um well
maybe not everybody but I am a huge Patrick Lion fan huge like fan girl to
the He's actually going to be up in Denver in a couple weeks and I'm like can I like make signs
um I just love his leadership philosophies and I love how he guides
and molds leaders not necessarily through lecture but through fables and tales that are relatable so I pretty
it's an even spread i give away pretty much all of his books and it's funny because I I have my personal library
upstairs in my office and every time I'm like "Oh you've got to read this book." And I'll go pull it out of my personal
library and I'm like "Okay give it back." back in the back of my mind I know they're never going to give it back 6 months later I'm replacing that book
because I have to have a fullon lenion library at all times just last week I
gave a client um getting naked and he texted me a couple days later it was like 9:00 at night he's like "I can't
put this book down." He's like "Thank you so much i think you just changed my business." Wow it's amazing it's amazing
how mindset and certain things can just be that thing that helps you pivot yeah and go the direction that you're
supposed to be going exactly exactly and if I can lend to that just by you know offering a book Yeah i'm gonna do it
i'll just keep replenishing that same damn shelf just order it by the case i know i probably should
oh let's see i really enjoy giving away Seth Goden books um to me when it comes to like marketing
I feel like and just a lot of strategy and different business thinking but Goden to me is just a constant source of
inspiration every time any book I've read he is just that person so it kind of depends on maybe where someone's at
which book of his but specifically for people that are going through strategy and marketing and trying to develop
things his book this is marketing is the Bible and kind of drives I think pretty
much if you read that book you'll understand how to market the tactics may not be there and like Facebook ads that
kind of stuff but when you're trying to find brand voice find who you're going after find kind of developing those
strategies it is the book so this is marketing hands down one of my faves
i've never read it wow it's in my office if you want it thank you great great
i love that yeah you know it's it's amazing how much you can glean from a
book sparks that curiosity but also that self-reflection because as you read you're not sitting there listening to
someone tell you right you get that chance to turn internally
and I think it's such an important part of any kind of business to take that time instead of just go go to have that
time to fill yourself up with new knowledge with new ideas you know because that it may not be that specific
thing but it's what I like to call the what if questions what if we did this you you know and
some usually that first layer is not any good so you have to keep asking those what if questions and eventually you get
down to that jewel of and that piece of information that you need to to get you on the road speaking of
layers as you were building David commercial you're right that first lay layer is never ever any good right so as
you were peeling back the layers what big mistakes did you make m
you know I think the big probably the biggest mistake I've made in business has been thinking that I need
to show up in a room a certain way and thinking that I have to take on
other people's expectations of me and I think when I started building David commercial I was in a phase of my life
personally emotionally spiritually where I was stripping everything away and so it was a very very dark season very
difficult but it's in those times that's that's when I found found found myself
at the age of 40 for the first time in my life um and so I would say having
especially in a business that is very white male dominated cisgender male
dominated um and here I am you know a brown
queer coming out at 40 man um and in in the city of Colorado Springs and so that
was a very interesting time and very difficult time because what people had
known about me before people thought "Oh well you lied to me." I was like "Well no I lied to myself i've been lying to
myself." Yeah and you know I think that walking being able to walk into a room
as who you fully are and not feel shame is one of the best feelings in the world
but there's a lot of shame and guilt that comes before that so I think trying to operate my
business on other people's terms was the biggest mistake I've ever made when you say other people's terms like what did
society feed into and tell you you needed to be well that I had to work
crazy hours that I had to be running around like a chicken with my head cut off putting out fires
um and over time the older I get the more I realize I can let stuff come to
me yeah you know what what I what I put out there is attracted to me as well and
I think you know the expectation of just churn turn ch turn ch turn ch turn ch turn turn ch turn turn ch turn turn ch turn turn ch turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn ch turn ch turn ch turn ch turn ch turn ch turn ch turn ch turn ch turn ch turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn turn make make make the company you work for more and more more
more and more money you know and I'm not motivated by money I'm motivated by purpose you know and and the good that
can be done in the world through my job not let me use this as a way to kind of
just shovel money in you know um absolutely so I think just identifying
for myself who I am and that I'm good without any
other kind of label you know I don't have to be the social justice guy i don't have to be the the king real
estate guy you know just who we are as human beings inherently we're good and I
think it took going through that biggest mistake of masking my entire life
um to finally go through thanks to COVID and all the surrounding circumstances
you know kind of kind of pushed you through that that reawakening
i'm curious when you think think back to building the business off of other people's
expectations what are some of the like actual activities or things that you found yourself doing like trying to
actually do to meet that expectation like how did that manifest for you yeah I think I was just frantic i think I
just felt like I needed to keep myself busy with any and everything it could be you know going to a shopping center and
handing out flyers from a property next door that I've got okay um nothing ever good comes out of that you know you know
like business development type of business business development i did a lot of networking events i mean and
we've done a lot of the same circles and serve on a lot of similar um you know boards and that sort of thing you know
and so I I found myself losing myself into activity and you know I was not in a marriage
that I was where I was happy um there was a lot of change in my faith journey that I was going through as well so I
mean you talk about all the worlds colliding and going dark at once that's that's what I experienced so you had
career family and faith and identity and identity yeah which we
had always been taught growing up you know that this is your identity you know
your identity is you're told what your identity is and then society picks up on that and then they put on you um and so
now it's just like to be able to be free from that kind of oppression is pretty
incredible i find so many business owners struggle with this even though their struggle might look drastically
different the basis is always the same and it's identity and the identity that you hold with your business and the
identity you extract from your business and that extraction energy that this business is giving you an identity like
all those other things that you're extracting identity from family faith whatever those things get taken away and
what's left who are you right and if you don't know how to answer that question your business is going to suffer across
the board completely agree and I think even just going back to the branding we did for our company if I was not in the
place that I was we the the result would have been very different yeah oh yeah
you know it would have been very different it would have been more conforming you know less inviting um but
we intentionally with how we've put together our website we I literally have someone had a person of color reach out
to me and say I went to your website and I felt like I was safe
and I was like that is the best compliment you could possibly give because that is the intention of of our
organization is to let people feel safe included and served with the same quality that someone who's a
multi-millionaire would get it's the same level of service that we provide and and to have people come to us now
and say "Wow this is so different." You know we felt safe i mean just incredible
there was a moment in your life when all of these were colliding right and it probably started
to brew within you first before you even said anything or did anything what was
that that moment where you're like "Okay I get it i hear you world universe Caleb
what was your moment you jumped off that cliff and said "Fuck it." Yeah that's pretty much how it went um I
was sitting in a parking lot in office i was sitting in a parking lot during COVID
um off of Interquest and I was on Zoom with my therapist and I'd been seeing
him for eight years at that time wow and I never beach house i yeah I contributed
yeah um but I just I finally came out to him
and in that moment the thing that set me free was that he just stopped and he
took a breath and he said "Can we just stop and bless your gayness right now?"
And it was the first time in my life where I felt like I have permission to
be me wow the very first and then um it was a series of other things that
happened meeting with some of my family members talking with them and then
reading Glennon Doyle's book Untamed you know it she's talks about the marriage that she was stuck in
and she's braiding her daughter's hair and she this question came to her mind she said is this a marriage I would want
for my daughter and the answer was no and then the thought came to her then why am I
modeling this for her wow and so as painful as it was for myself and my
children I had to set myself free before I could Yeah help anybody else really
absolutely you did it for your kids you had to set that example for them to live
the life that you Yeah wanted them to live it's important it is i did the same
thing it's tough it is it is but you know when you have those
self-realizations and and self-discovery moments
um there's always that fear of like what can happen and you know the world is going to shatter and it's going to break
but and it does it does it does but but then it gets put back together yeah then
you get to be the architect right you get to be the person that says "This feels authentic to me this fits with who
I am." Yeah and this is what doesn't it makes me think of that Japanese pottery
oh what is it called i forget where it's the broken pottery and then they fuse it together with gold and that pottery is
some of the most valuable pottery in all of the lands but it's because of its
brokenness that makes it so beautiful yeah and you we're in an industry where
brokenness and vulnerability isn't celebrated yeah absolutely you know absolutely so
that was a doozy to navigate you know but you know over time you do it and you
get less clunky at it you know um and then you start living out from your values you know and you don't have this
exterior pressure of you have to perform you know it just it felt like it was dance monkey dance you know and I was
just like no I'm tired of dancing i'm exhausted i'm 45 now i don't want to dance yeah exactly yeah off
take your tambourine somewhere else absolutely yeah so you blew up your
world you broke mhm
and what was in the brokenness a profound moment that helped
you really feel comfortable and yeah I did the right thing
you know um that's a really good question and I got a two-part answer for that okay i would say first it was
reading Father Richard Roar and coming to the belief that I am inherently good
i I was raised that you are a sinner you're going straight to hell these are all the things and I think it was
finally getting that belief that if I am created in the image of God then I am good yes you are and so I think that was
a huge part for me and then um I would
say
wow there's just a lot there's just so much to learn from the darkness
from and I and I think because we always are very attached to certain outcomes we have certain expectations
I think it came to the place where I had to learn because I am good I can trust
myself and And I think there's many of us walking around out there we do not trust ourselves we rely on all the other
voices around us to make us okay but if you go into that dark place and
you just keep doing the next right thing there were days where I couldn't imagine 10 seconds from now so I would count
down 10 seconds and then I was there and everywhere that I went I was still
here you know and I think what that has brought for me is a new understanding of
the amount of anxiety that I had and depression was all these other voices
that are telling you you're not good enough you can't you know you have to do this a certain way but at some point you
finally are just like no I'm good i can trust myself and if I'm wrong I can learn from that
yeah and I think every every dark place every dark night of the soul has a
lesson to teach us and I think what I've learned now to do is when those times come is just ask a question what is it
trying to teach me right now it's the best you can do absolutely
i find like when that thing comes online for yourself where you finally begin to trust yourself and you start building
beliefs around what you believe in yourself yeah it's like within you you're not outsourcing it it's not
anybody else telling you you might find other people that are saying similar things where it feels like there's a resonance there and that can be
informing and encouraging like oh yeah they're saying something that I really feel too but at the end of the day it
gets you to the point where you have enough authority to where you're willing to be wrong and I find a lot of leaders struggle
with that they're not willing to be wrong like they're not willing to take a strong enough stand to be like "Nope."
Yeah i'm willing to be wrong let's go yeah and that's such a vulnerable place to be but it requires so much like self
uh worth and identity yeah that you just put it on red like I'm willing to be wrong yep but you know what i'm probably
not because I know where it's coming from right but that place that almost um
audacity and then the world is looking at you like well what business coach told you that or what book did you read that into all that other stuff and it's
like I don't know i just this is me and I'm willing to be wrong yeah and I think if we pay attention to our internal
journeys and I think so often business we focus on the exterior the success the all the different things right the
strategies i find that it's so important for me now to make sure that I'm grounded before I
go into a meeting and so if that means I need to take a 20-minute nap before I go and show up then that's what I do you
know and to be able to give myself the freedom to say you know what that can wait that doesn't need to be done right
now yeah and pay attention to my internal dialogue and what's going on there and what I need to align there and
then I go back to my work once I find that grounding and alignment again and it's amazing how productive you can be
when you're aligned absolutely because so much of the the um
misalignment leads to inefficiency yes right just even if you look at it from a very like brass kind of crass way it's
like if it's misaligned it's not going to be efficient because it has to zigzag and it's going all around so that's your
internal constitution yeah then you're not going to be very efficient in the way that you're showing up at work
because you're misaligned you've got all the voices in your head and you got all the that's going on of course
you're going to be feeling anxiety and all these other things that so many business owners have on and like let
alone just all these other layers you're bringing up just on that top layer you're dealing with that imagine what's
happening as you get closer to the core right absolutely and that's why we spend a lot of time talking to small businesses with our company yeah is
helping them helping them realize that okay you don't just want to open a restaurant there's a whole lot more that
goes into this that's the important part right there is understanding that and you know what are the hurdles that you
can we try to create a a road map for people so they can say okay this is my
dream but here's how you get there but you're going to have to go through it layer by layer by layer we'll be here
with you in those things and I think it's a great metaphor for life too right when you're going through the different
layers you got to find that support of someone who just sit there with you that has been through Yeah yeah you can sit
in the silence together and just be and know you're okay
you have to do it alone but it doesn't have to be lonely yes that's the piece that I found it's like you you're still
the one that has to do it no one can do it for you you got to be the one to do the thing but it doesn't have to be
lonely correct you don't have to do it alone i love that i'm going to steal that from you that's really good that's really
good i need to tell my kids that go pay your bills alone i'll be right here so it's not lonely
hold your hand get off my
payroll um you know in the same essence of alignment I think that there's also
that critical component of authenticity um I'd love to hear you guys'
perspective on this because in my career I found when I was not authentic to
myself when I was not able to be me and I'm a really unconventional HR geek like
really unconventional um I like to break the rules before I make
the rules yeah right um and especially working in corporate I was just never
settled i was never authentic um you know just just never felt like me
professionally until I went out on my own and even when I first started the business I wasn't truly authentic i
wasn't fully me because I had to be that person that everybody expects you to be yeah right you have to unlearn a lot
yeah you do i mean honestly I guess I'll say it here on camera but I probably
shouldn't to many people you know I'll tell them I'm a native and they'll say first thing is "Where'd you go to high
school?" And I would typically lie i would lie and not tell anybody where I went to high school because I went to a
pretty rough school that was very unorthodox and has a strong reputation
for housing the the kids that were thrown away and I was one of those kids but I would
never tell anybody because I had to fit into a mold right and I'm just starting to bubble
out of that um and I'm starting to find my true
authentic self especially you know publicly professionally it's easier at home behind closed doors but anyway um
now that you you've found your true authentic self and you've you've been
that outward person yeah say "No here I am and I'm proud of myself." Yeah how
has that impacted your business because I feel like it's impacted my business quite positively yeah initially it was
affected very negatively um but I think that was that's the getting rid of that's the shedding of the skin um
because I want to work with people that align with us you know and so so the
number of business deals has gone you commercial deals has gone down but they're more valuable to me because
these are people that have now become friends i mean we're sitting here right now because real estate made us friends
yeah you know exactly um so I I would say definitely one thing that it has has
definitely helped me is what what do I say no to mhm there are certain archetypes in our industry that I've
learned all they want to do is spew about politics and complain about the social problems in our country while
they're buying houses in Arizona and all over the world and you know like that that doesn't I don't really that's not
my thing you know if you want to talk politics let's be constructive you know let's humanize the issue you know and
that sort of thing so I think it what has taught me is what to say no to and if I feel in my gut that something's not
right like I'll sometimes even with my team I'll say it out loud so they can hold me accountable and be like
something about this deal doesn't feel right and then they you know usually just get that reflection back they're like just okay then let's walk away oh
my god that gut is a powerful thing it is well but you have to trust it
and I think that it's easier said than done mhm and I think you know for any
business person watching I think finding your authentic self and doing the work
that only you can do will lead to growth in your business and
it will attract the right people and the right business yeah it definitely does attract the people
that it's easier to do business with probably because you know you attract people like you birds of a feather yeah
right but it's a an interesting journey as you go through and you shed those
feathers and because with those feathers go the people who aligned with that
that mask and it's hard to realize that they were attached to that mask and not you as a
human and and you know there's a couple things that that to me seem so relevant one is
that when we're going after these things that we want especially in our business right every business owner is trying to
manifest some sort of dream something that they're they're willing to give their lives up for basically in so many
ways and the final step to getting what you want is shedding the identity that's
holding you back from having it yes always comes down to that it's the last step it's the final boss it's the Bowser
that you have to be like the identity and often that identity is like you were saying those feathers that other people
have put into us that says you're going to be this the conditioning that we receive whatever that ends up being and
we get to the point where we're like taking it off like this isn't me this isn't me this isn't me but you're
shedding that identity and that's the hardest thing to let go of it because in that we find that the source of our
authenticity is the gut not the head everybody wants to think it's what you think about yourself but it's actually
what you feel about And that's the we're so disconnected from that through conditioning and all
these various factors that we're talking about from society family faith whatever
that at the end of the day we have to get reconnected to like that gut feeling again to the point where you can trust
yourself so you're making you know authoritative decisions which is so deeply connected to authenticity i find
is if you're authentic you're authoritative you know who you are there is no you know for me coming into this
role and working with the team there was a commitment I had to myself that I was going to remain my authentic self
because I found it in a basement on Zoom which was way easier to be able to kind
of like have my life everything else going on and I didn't have to interact with people daytoday it was just on a
screen working remote and so I found this authentic self that came online in that environment i was like wait now I
have to go into the business world and be the same am I gonna change am I gonna go cut my hair is my employer not gonna
hire me because I have like long hippie hair like how is that you know is that like and that's just a silly thing but
it was part of the identity that like kind of came online for me i was like nope I'm going to do this and so like
did the process right and so just that remaining authentic and then of course in doing so find an incredible
organization to partner with and work work with and so that authenticity piece is at every level of and if it's modeled
in leadership it's going to then trickle down agreed agreed i think a lot of
people when you find your true authentic self and you put it on display and and you own it
I think people want to be a part of it i I agree i think because it there's
something attractive about somebody that is living in their power and in their truth there is something about that and
I can't tell you with with my own coming out journey how many people from years past have reached out to me and said
watching your journey has helped me walk mine wow and there's nothing more
powerful than that you know um or painful well you know I mean
normal is boring right original it's exciting
unique is sexy if we're all living our true authentic
selves that's what we want to be because then we're all being the best versions of who we are and that makes us
interesting right yeah right how do you find now that you've this has kind of come online and you're beginning to to
live it out never perfectly right those of us that like it's never like we don't ever arrive on some levels right but how
do you find it now shifting the way you're approaching business how you've been building over the last couple years kind of fast forward now like take us
back to like now what is this like for you so now I would say now it's like there's a lot more peace you know
there's less depression and anxiety two years ago about this time I was curled up in bed and I wasn't getting out um it
would I would go two three weeks would and barely leave the house and it was
rough yeah and and that's because I was letting my ego die because I was no
longer this super successful real estate guy i was a guy who couldn't get any deals done because nobody was doing deals you know and so while that was
dying I think I knew that if I don't go through this and I don't detach my identity from this that this is this
dread this anxiety this depression will continue and so it's one of those things where
you just have to surrender m um but now it's be able to just to have more
freedom to be like "Oh let's go on a podcast let's start a podcast not like
I'm I'm trying to get famous from it or anything but like there's actually people out there that don't know what
they don't know." Yeah and so if I can use my platform to make a difference uh
a long way around to answer your question is I I'm more productive now
i'm more intentional um I don't have a hurried lifestyle and
nor do I want it i used to think that was a sign of success but it's not but if I have an extra hour before a meeting
guess what and I don't have anything else to do i can just sit in my car and read or I can listen to a podcast or I
can do meditation i think it's got me to the place where it's more like I can do this
you know um and like you said it's it's a daily battle you know the the thoughts
are still there the patterns are still there sometimes but the more you do that the more you heal um and I'm a huge
proponent of therapy EMDR um neuro emotional testing um natural
healing um somatic healing you know those all of those things have been huge parts of my journey because our bodies
don't know what to do with the stress and expectations that are put on us it's true and so there's a whole other
physical level that I think should be addressed it's like if you're feeling like you're in fight or flight and you
can't you're just like go go go my gosh you're not living you know and anxiety
comes from either you know what happened in the past or what's going you're afraid it's going to happen in the
future and so fear is such a big trigger for anxiety and so I would say on this
side of it there's more love and less fear i remember one of my daughter's therapists many years ago when she first
started therapy and we were exploring you know her her mental health looked at
us and I'll never forget she looked at us and said there are only two primary
emotions every emotion is rooted in one of these it's either love or fear and if
you trace back every human emotion it's usually connected to one of those root
emotions and when you look at society like esecally those big heavy I don't want to call negative
emotions because I mean even what we we dab as those bad emotions that we don't want to feel they're not bad they're not
bad they're human right and they're something all of us should experience um
but oftentimes it's like you know anger is rooted out of fear you
know why are you angry because I'm afraid of this you know you know happiness is I love this moment whatever
it I thought that was pretty neat neat association um you just mentioned your
podcast and I'm so grateful thank you for having me on as a guest absolutely um
with that said how do you bring your true authentic self into a commercial
real estate podcast yeah yeah you know I'm still figuring that out you Some
days are better than others you know you connect with some people better than you do others you know you're mentally better than one one day than the next um
but for me I just try to keep thinking about who is the end user and what do
they need to hear what do they potentially not know and so because of that we we deal with people from all not
not we're not not just brokers not just investors we're talking to the regional building department we're talking to HR
experts we're talking to experts that any way that a a small business can be affected it doesn't have to be just the
real estate yeah but all of those things feed into the story and narrative of what that client actually needs or
potential client actually needs and so I just treat the podcast and the listeners
like they're a client you know ask them questions get curious see what I can promote for them um but then also listen
to the questions they aren't asking and then so that takes active listening
right and I think that's a a very um difficult thing to come by in the commercial real estate industry is
someone who's just going to sit and listen absolutely you know I think that's why I was so grateful for you
when we started working together is you sat down and not only did you ask about the logistics and locations you asked
about the business and why we own the business and what do we do and what our differentiator was and how did we want
to show up in the market you really took that extra effort in understanding us
and I think that's probably why we're sitting in this really awesome sauce office space now is because you knew we
were unique and we had to find a space that was equally as unique yeah i don't know any other CPAs or um HR companies
in town that have space like this or identity like this right yeah yeah no
pocket protectors allowed right or mahogany or mahogany we'll burn it
neon signs and tattoo chairs all day long there you go 100%
so almost kind of in that same theme what you're saying um I'm curious what do you feel like are the things that
small business owners need to hear to be able to show up as their authentic self what maybe advice feels almost a little
like it's not advice it's like your story your experience from that what do you feel like small business owners need
to hear i think number one they need to hear they're not alone and they have support and we thankfully live in a city
that has incredible supports for small businesses most people don't know that they exist so I feel like for us it's
just like point them in the right direction here's somebody to help you with a business plan here's somebody you talk to about financing um and I think
it's important for businesses to hire a broker that wants to understand their business and that will be their champion
throughout the whole process it's not just a transaction this these are people's lives that are going to be
spent hours and hours in these in these spaces so what does that feel like and I
think it's important for business to to not know first of all not know they're not alone but also that it's imperative
to ask questions i know when I started my business I was just scared of asking the wrong question and I tell cl my my
clients all the time if you think it's a stupid question please ask it because that will probably uncover something
else that we need to address and so I think businesses need to realize that they're not alone there are supports and
groups especially if you're in the Colorado Springs community we can help and support your dream to get to
fruition it may not be in the timing you want you may not be ready and there's times where I tell people you're you're not ready yet but I want here's what
you're going to do to get ready and then when they're ready we go out to the market and we look um so I think small
businesses feel very isolated very often and so getting involved with things like the small business week um that's going
on right now and different resources that are out there there's tons and so they just need to talk to the right
people um and so if we can connect them then that's what we'll do i always find it interesting and I don't really know
why I'm going down this rabbit hole but I'm doing it because I want to um I find it interesting a lot of people
especially in the commercial real estate world try and tackle it on their own you know not use a broker go out and I don't
understand how they do it because you can't even barely find listings out there for commercial real estate like it's terrible you guys should go to
Zillow yeah they But there's benefits to that if you're a really good broker then then you rock it
you know you know what's out there you know what's going on you know who to talk to but you're right it's like
people think all the time and I think for them people are afraid to ask the question well how do you get paid if
you're helping me ah yeah that's true and so there's just this unspoken well maybe I'll get a better deal if I just
work directly with the owner absolutely not yeah actually you'll get bent over you'll get Exactly mhm you know you
might find a fairer landlord but at the same time you need somebody who's representing your interests that is just
on your side that will point out okay here's you need to talk to an attorney about this you need to talk to your CPA
about this you know and so really the purpose of a broker is to walk someone through a
transaction beginning to end you know and educate people along the way but
yeah you're right i mean it's like the wild west out there or if people are looking for commercial properties you're going to come to me and say "Oh I want
to take a look at this property." I'm like "Well that sold two years ago it just didn't get taken down." Yeah you
know and there's so much other nuance with you know who's the other company you're working with who's the other
broker how do you best present you know your case with this offer to lease this
space so there's people don't think about tenant improvements like that's going to cost money y you know you're
going to have to pull a permit and if it's not up to code you're not going to get your certificate of occupancy you
know and so there's all these other things you know and even things that people don't think about you know triple
net triple net leases and but there's but yeah they don't
realize there's different types they don't know how brokers get paid they don't know how brokers will help them yeah and unfortunately there this
industry has a reputation of not being helpful yeah it it's very standoffish it's very um cold and transactional and
I think people just need to find the broker that works personalitywise and expertise-wise that work with them so
when is it you know you said people may not be ready but when is it too early to start reaching out and asking these
questions and using you potentially as that resource so they can be better plan and better prepare like Yeah when do you
find is it is it I would say if they're you know if they're looking to open a business it depends on their timeline how far along they are but if they're in
the this stage where I had somebody call me last week and they were like "Well I have this idea." I'm like "Great okay
you need to talk to your lender you need to talk to this." And so he's probably at least a year out
but he's but in order for him to do it right he needs to be able to be talking to the right people yeah yeah i mean
that's so much what it is often yeah so I I would say there's a lot of planning so I would say I mean if you're looking
to start a business you know six to six months to a year out you need to be starting to have these conversations
because I think the expectation needs to be set that you're not going to have this is not going to happen in a month
you know you're not going to be up and running in a month there's if you're a restaurant you've got to go through the health department stuff you've got to go
through the regional building department you know there's all these different things that people just don't realize are part of the process but we've done
our best to try to make it as business friendly as possible here in Colorado Springs
i'm so glad I don't do what you do i'm glad I don't I don't do what you do
it is hard because people don't realize I mean you know I was working on a deal that was going to be the biggest deal I've ever did and it fell through
and I've been working on it for two and a half months you know there's times where you work six months to a year and nothing happens mhm and so that has been
great for So when I lost a $7 million deal I was like "Well that happened
let's move on." Yeah you know like what else can you do you know you just got to be prepared
mentally and emotionally for it it'll come for you it will so how has all of this growth in your life made you a
better commercial real estate agent great question um I have a lot more
empathy um I have a lot more patience with people um I also can be more direct um
so I would say those are probably three things that has has definitely helped me in in how I do my business now it's like
treating people with dignity and respect you know not like oh you you're dumb you don't know what you're doing no it's
like no let me let me ask some questions to you so then you feel comfortable asking questions of me and then it
becomes teamwork y absolutely and within your organization i apologize i don't know do you have staff do you have
people that are kind of working i do i've got two part-time brokers and I've got an assistant as well um so but we're
very small team um and they're all part-time so it's still you know kind of me doing the the day-to-day um but have
great support and great uh great team so how about as a leader like kind of leading people and having a staff like
how has it impacted your leadership yeah I think it um I think it forces you to
be more direct you know and and bring more communication and clarity you know
in the good times and in the bad times you know and so I think having clearer communication I think that's it's helped
me to have that because I don't have to just sit here and worry about my world you know and and I want
don't want to worry about their worlds either but to find a healthy balance in
how do I lead and support at the same time and and also keep a solid personal
relationship with you know I was I don't know if it was I don't know if it was you that told me this or maybe somebody else but someone told me they're like
"If you're going to hire somebody and you don't want them have you wouldn't want to have them over for Christmas dinner they probably don't need to be on
your staff." That sounds like something I would say yeah I think I I'm pretty sure it was you um you know cuz when we
were in our in our growth stage when I was going from just me you know I met with Rihanna to say "Okay well what do I
need?" Like help me process this and I thought I needed another broker but that's not what I needed i needed
somebody to get the systems in place and the day-to-day operations operating smoothly and you nailed it it's been
great nailed it so good that was such a great day it was a good day yeah that'll always be a day in my heart like "Oh we
did good." Yeah well okay so as you reflect back
on just going through the mud coming out of the mud enjoying a little bit of
sunshine and vitamin D as you build your business and the glory of you what would
you tell all of these people who are viewing right now
like what advice would you give them as they're considering maybe even just taking that step into God well I think
you have to have the belief in yourself that you've got the courage and the
wisdom to make it through and while you're going through it don't
stop you know you might need to pause for a minute and regroup and figure out
the very next step because sometimes you don't even know what's next you know the next 10 seconds what's what is it yeah
but stay present you know and when you're in the pain you're in their darkness acknowledge it it's there
ignoring it doesn't do any good and so then you just do the next right
thing you just keep doing your best you know and sometimes you're crawling but
you're moving you know plucking the feathers is worth it plucking the feathers is worth it
it's you know I think it's uh it brings a different level of
freedom and h and happiness not in the fleeting sense but more of just like a
okay I've done this before i can do it again you know and so and the thing is we're
always reinventing ourselves we're always becoming Yeah a different version of who we are based on our experiences
and so and just knowing that this isn't a one-time thing but get through it and when you're on the other side you'll be
glad you did i'm freaking speechless thanks a lot
Jason would really murder me if he did drop the mic yeah don't drop the mic mic drop
caleb do me a favor tell all of our viewers how the hell they can work with
you yeah well the thing is you don't have to work with us and get a deal done you can call us and we will answer
questions it is we're not just a factory that puts out transactions so if you have questions about anything commercial
real estate you can find us on Instagram Caleb David uh same thing on LinkedIn um
Facebook as well and you can also listen to our podcast Commercial Real Estate Unfiltered um we've got our sixth
episode that just came out um last night so uh if you are curious about
commercial real estate and the stuff around it or your small business and you just don't know where to start that's a great place to start but then pick up
the phone say hello to us and we'll we'll be happy to talk thank you for joining us my friend so happy to have
you here today thank you Jason with that I think we can sign off thanks for being here and we look forward to seeing
everybody on the next episode of Show Me Yours
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